Josh: Our hero today is Matt Kofora, a serial entrepreneur and fitness industry veteran. Matt started as a trainer, moved into gym ownership and now runs a chain of orange theory gyms. He’s created success on every side of the fitness business. So he knows what to do, but perhaps more importantly, what not to do.

Today, Matt unpacks the marketing systems that reliably build fitness business empires. Specifically, Down how any gym of any size can leverage referrals and event marketing. Overall, Matt believes that ideally, you are engaging in five marketing channels at any given time and explains the most important ones for growing his collection of gyms.

Once you’ve got the attention of prospective members, Matt walks you through how to sell your programs and get new members to sign the dotted line. Predictably, also, we explore the differences between marketing and selling as an independent gym and a franchise gym. Concept as well as the pros and cons that come with each of those without further ado matt kefora All right.

Welcome to the gym heroes podcast matt Can you go ahead and introduce yourself and talk to us a little bit about your background in business and

Matt Kafora: fitness? Yeah, my name is Matt Kefora. I have spent over 20 years in the fitness space. The first 10 years was in the big box world VP with LA Fitness, oversaw about 22 different locations, hundreds of employees, and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of revenue on both the membership side and the personal training side.

So kind of a cut my teeth in, in that world, so to speak learned a lot about sales, a lot about. Marketing and leadership and management and what to do and what to not do. After about four or five years of consistent 16 plus hour days, I decided I was going to go into business for myself. And I found this amazing concept called orange theory.

That was about 11 years ago. So orange theory was not what orange theory is today. And people are like, what is orange theory? But I liked the model. I had built something similar and I think there is a lot of validity in, in how the small group is set up. So that was kind of when it was emerging, dove into that within four years, had seven locations opened.

So that’s kind of where where I. My start in the fitness space through that time, I kind of diversified into different areas as well. Talking with my, my accounting team, Hey, you need to spend money here, or it’s going to go to taxes. So I’ve done everything from dog training business, getting involved in the digital marketing space you know, home health fitness, you name it, I’ve done it.

But at the end of the day, business is business and the principles apply across the board. So it’s actually been really. Really easy to kind of translate successes from fitness into other industries as well.

Josh: Absolutely. So you, I know that you’re big on having a a marketing mix and not just focusing on one channel.

I know that some businesses, they find something that works, they put all their eggs in that basket and then that can lead to problems down the road. Is this a mistake? What’s, what’s going on there? How should they handle this?

Matt Kafora: Great question. So I’m not a fishing man, right? But I, I enjoy it. I’m just not very successful at it, but let’s go fishing for a second.

Right. I throw one pole in the water. I literally have one chance to catch that fish. Right. And I’m sitting there and I’m waiting and I’m waiting and I’m waiting and maybe it bites and maybe it doesn’t. If you’re me with my luck, it doesn’t. Okay. Now Josh, if I say, Hey, let’s throw five or six different poles in the water.

And I sit there and I have five or six poles. I know I have one chance of catching a fish or I have five chances of catching a fish and marketing’s as simple as that. Right. Unfortunately, what happens oftentimes to a lot of business owners and studio owners specifically is we throw our one line in the water and then we hurry up and wait with our fingers crossed.

And we’re like, okay, oftentimes that line is, is our digital, right? We’re going to turn on some Facebook marketing. We’re going to turn on some Instagram stuff and we’re going to sit there and hurry and hope, and we’re going to wait. And unfortunately. Sometimes the waiting doesn’t happen, or sometimes the result doesn’t happen from the waiting.

And, you know, what I see is, is they put all the eggs in that basket, right? That only that one line, and if it doesn’t pan out, then business doesn’t pan out. Or the month doesn’t pan out, or the revenue, or the profits, right? And so logic says, let’s throw multiple lines in the water. Let’s, let’s really kind of layer them and stack them.

Let them work in conjunction with one another and allow. For five opportunities, six, seven opportunities versus one opportunity to drive lead flow, drive business, increase top line, change lives, and obviously, you know, make some money. So

Josh: how many marketing channels should they be cultivating? Is there a number, is there a methodology to it?

How do you push that?

Matt Kafora: Yeah, five would be ideal. Again, most people go with, let me just pour into digital. And they’re like, I’m going to run Facebook. I’m going to run Instagram ads, and that’s great. And that’s one of our channels. And we certainly should do that. And we should always do that, right?

There’s exponential reach with that. It is an absolute must in business. I hate to speak at absolutes, but that is something that I think with, with the reach, it’s, it’s a no brainer to not do. So that’s, that’s channel number one. A channel number two for me is business to business, right? And for me, that is massive because we are a part of the community whether we want to be, whether we think we are or not we’re a part of the community.

We service the members of the community. We have to interact with other businesses in the community. And oftentimes we can leverage those businesses in the community and, and provide that reciprocity and. Allow them to leverage us as well. Third for me, it’s really old school, but I don’t like old school.

I like proven school and it is direct mail and people like direct mail and a direct mail when layered in with everything else provides an awesome touch point for us. What we know is it takes about eight to 13 touch points for someone to take action in our space so we can sit there on Facebook and we can run our ads with our one line or we can throw out Facebook.

We can go to local businesses, we can hit mailboxes, we can get out to line number four events and festivals and school carnivals and farmer’s markets and anything like that. We get out there as well. So there’s line four. And last, we’re actually going to look internal to our member base. And this is my absolute favorite here.

Josh is referrals. Referrals should be our bread and butter. Really about 90 percent of our business should come from lines two through five. So that business, the business, the direct mail, the events and the referrals, and about 10 percent should come from our digital marketing. Oftentimes what happens, business owners flip that and we’re putting about 90 percent of our effort into this, this digital space and we sit and sometimes we wait.

Oftentimes don’t see the exact result that we’re hoping to get.

Josh: Great. What if, so five plus channels, Reliable still. It might sound daunting to some gym owners. We have listeners who Own yoga studios run martial arts studios. Those are often one to two employee businesses So do you have any tips for somebody who doesn’t have a a big staff team to manage all of those marketing channels?

Matt Kafora: Yeah we’re gonna kind of triage things, right? We’re gonna see what makes the most impact in the shortest amount of time with the least amount of work And honestly, one of the best ways to do that is referrals Harp on those referrals like Crazy. If you have 25 members, if you have 50 members, if you have 200 members, those are opportunities for you to leverage your business because they’re paying you.

They enjoy your service. They enjoy what you’re doing there. They’re bought into the culture, the community, and they are going to be your biggest raving fans. Oftentimes business owners are. Not asking for the referrals. Sometimes they come from a place of like, I don’t want to bother my members. Sometimes it’s a place of like, you know, I’m, you know, a little bit of shame to ask for help.

And it feels kind of weird. At the end of the day, a referral is given for one of three reasons to help me, the business owner or salesperson, right. To help you, the person that I’m asking, right. We have this, what’s in it for me mentality. Or the third reason is to help them, the person that you’re giving.

That free week or free day pass too. So as long as we approach it with that mindset where we’re actually doing a disservice by not asking our members for referrals, because at the end of the day, we know referrals yield better results. It’s more fun. Right. From a business standpoint, we get a greater lifetime value.

Our members stay with us longer, you know? So we’re actually doing a disservice by not asking our members for referrals. And it’s as simple as, who did you want to bring with you for your next workout, Josh? Right. So there’s so many opportunities to ask for these referrals. It’s not just that point of sale, but for me, that is 100 percent the best time to do it.

But point of sale referrals, anytime you’re chatting with a member about anything, I’m asking, Hey, who did you want to bring with you next time, even if they have a poor experience with us, right? Something was, you know, broken or they felt it was dirty or they didn’t have an amazing experience or they’re out of toilet paper, whatever it is.

Oh my gosh, let me take care of you. You know what? Let me get you a free pass. Who did you want to bring with you next time? I want to make sure you and a friend are taken care of. We can spin this any which way, but referrals are the name of the game. And then we can take this into an even greater play, whether you have one employee, two employees or 20, there’s, there’s much greater place to really get some exponential result there.


Josh: So among those, those channels. Is there anything that really stands out right now? Are there, are there marketing tactics that are really popping for gym businesses reliably across locations that you’ve seen?

Matt Kafora: Yeah, referrals and, and for me that’s, that’s not something that is a one and done.

It’s a process, it’s a culture that gets built and then it’s not taxing on the team. It’s not like we have to have a large team to make that happen. Referrals are going really well. And right now, a lot of the events are going really well. Josh, I’m out here in Arizona. It’s blistering hot. It’s like 115 degrees and my team is still getting out to events.

Right. And when we talk about events, you know, we’re talking about things that are potentially complimentary and things that are just kind of. We’re going to fish where the fish are. So when I say that there was like the Arizona bridal expo out here a couple of weeks ago. Guess what? Everyone wants to look great in their wedding dress.

There’s tens of thousands of people there. Typically women, right? Which is my target audience. I know it’s 25 to 55 female is about 80 percent of my member base. Guess what? I’m fishing where the fish are. So we went and set up table and tent out there. And I think oftentimes what happens at these events is people set up a table on a tent and they want to turn themselves into a billboard, right?

But this is a relational sale. Fitness is supposed to be fun. We want it to be inviting and, and we need to present in that way at these expos, at these events, at these farmers markets, we need to get out there and we need to interact. So it’s always fun to do like a spin to win or. Any sort of game, sometimes we’ll bring cornhole at some of my fall festivals and school carnivals that I’ve gone to.

We’ve hired a face painter because I know there’s going to be kids there. So mommy, daddy, you know, let me go over here and get my face painted. Well, guess what? I have a captive audience. So my team then hits all of those individuals in line, gets them a free week pass. What are you currently doing for fitness right now?

So really organic kind of the ground and pound stuff is working very, very well right now. Across the nation, you know at lab rumor, we, we coached tons and tons of fitness studio owners. And this is just the repeat that I keep hearing is referrals. I’ve harped on them for referrals for years and years and years.

I just had a, an individual at about an hour ago, share with me last month. They had zero referrals the following month, just by implementing. Asking at point of sale, 71 referrals. I’ll tell you what, Josh, if I can get 71 free leads, I’m all about it. Absolutely. 71. Especially because they convert

Josh: higher.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. It’s kind of like in sales, it’s like a, almost like a warm handoff.

Matt Kafora: Oh, my gosh, it’s so easy. And in fact, they didn’t get to some of those referrals quickly enough. So then the members came back in and they’re like, you haven’t called Susie yet. Why not? Do you want me to call her? Yes, I sure do.

Yes. Let’s call her right now. Right. But then there’s this, then there’s this peer pressure and there’s this social proof and referrals convert at such a greater. Conversion rate than just a cold Facebook lead. This is again, I can’t stress it enough. This should be bread and butter in everyone’s business.

And if it’s not, it can be referrals are like a light switch, right? We just have to turn them on. Can we hone it? Can we polish it? Can we make the presentation better? Absolutely. But this is not one of those ramp up processes in a business that requires massive manpower or labor or hours or resources or anything like that.

It is simply we’re just going to ask. That’s it.

Josh: Ask. Get comfortable asking. People are often more than happy that it’s not even

Matt Kafora: weird. They want to. They want to bring somebody. It’s more fun for them.

Josh: Yeah. Absolutely. That’s awesome. I’ve been here. I have a friend in parks and rec in the town that I live in and after COVID, the, the events that they’ve done around here, I’ve just been flying off the handle.

It’s been bigger than it’s ever been before in previous years. And I, that’s, I know that’s definitely something that’s huge for gym owners. It’s just to get, there’s, I mean, hundreds, hundreds, thousands of people, depending on how big your town is, thousands of people that could potentially come by. And I love the idea of doing something that’s not, not, not overselling the fitness aspect of it.

Like having a, having face painter for the kids and then asking the moms, Hey, what are you doing for fitness by the, by the way?

Matt Kafora: I’m driving traffic over there some way, shape or form. You can’t tell the kid no. Yeah,

Josh: absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We do. We’ve done that a lot with martial arts. Get the kids and then ask the parents later.

Once you’ve got the kids, ask the parents about it. Yeah, absolutely. That’s awesome. So you’ve, you talked a little about, about sales. I had had your partner Mike RC on before. A podcast a few months ago and he was really big on sales, especially on pre selling, which is very interesting. People don’t talk about that a lot and I’m curious to know what your approach is to the sales process.

Matt Kafora: We are in a different sales process because we’re selling a service and we’re selling something that’s a little more intimate Right. And when I say intimate, we’re talking about somebody’s body. We’re talking about how they feel, how they show up, how they see themselves. So we need to approach the conversations as such.

And we need to understand it’s a relational sale. I’ll tell you the client intake in our sales process is hands down the most important part of the sales process, because this is when we can truly go through a true discovery process. So I train my teams. You know, the, the subtle nuances, right? We, we talk, you know, big picture, what are your goals?

What are you looking to accomplish? Kind of starting with our open ended questions, making them more narrow and getting some, some tie downs in there, very specific points. One of the biggest pieces that I say here is the goals that we uncover are truly not all that important. And I know that’s, that’s a potentially con you know controversial statement there because.

We’re in the business to help people. We’re in the business to change lives. And then Matt, you just told me that the goals that they share are not really that important. It doesn’t really make sense, right? But I’ll tell you, it’s not the goals that are important. It’s the why behind the goals because in life it’s either pain or pleasure that causes people to take action.

And then unfortunately in our space, about 99 percent of the action takers are experiencing something painful. Yes. So goals are important. Yes, because I want that potential member to paint the picture in their head. I always envision like a stick figure cartoon with the dot, dot, dot, and the little bubbles up there of them picturing something that’s for that.

And I want them to be bought in and committed to that. Now I want to dig into the emotional. I want to dig into the why behind that, right? And have a really powerful story from a member that I sold a long time ago and it still resonates with me this day and I share it all the time. Thanks. Lady came in, she says, I want to lose 30 or 40 pounds.

I said, okay, which one I’d like to lose 40 pounds. Okay, great. Talk to me, kind of get a little more specific, allow her to paint that picture. As I build some rapport with her, I asked her. Why today? What brought you in today? Why did we wake up today and decide that today is the day that we’re going to take action to lose these 40 pounds?

She gets super teary eyed, looks down, starts crying a little bit, said, my son came home crying from school today.

Mrs. Jones, help me out here. I’m not quite putting the dots together. We want to lose 40 pounds because your son came crying from school today. Well, the kids were making fun of him for having a fat mom. Wow. Wow. Right? Yeah. And those, and those were her words exactly. And I’m like, that’s painful. Right.

That’s painful for her. That was painful for me to hear. Right. Kids are mean. We know that. Mm hmm. But mom’s here taking action, right? And the fact that she had enough rapport with me to be able to share that and then start on her fitness journey. Again, something painful happens in their life. But this is part of that relational sales.

So that discovery process, that client intake, that rapport building, that digging into the why and allowing us to overcome objections prior to them being objections. That’s our sales process. The workout should sell itself. Doesn’t matter what modality you’re in. Yoga, bar, hit, boxing. Doesn’t matter. The modality should sell itself.

We should have and deliver a great service and a great product over there. But if we’re not going through a full discovery process, getting deep with them, finding out that why behind their goals, we’re turning into a price sale, which is a really hard thing to do.

Josh: That’s an incredible story. That, that is one thing that I’ve, I’ve been learning about sales.

I’m more of a marketing guy. And. I thought it was a revolution when I, when I read my first article or whatever, where it’s like, yeah, ask them what they’re looking for instead of trying to like ram the product down their throat. Right. But when you, when you just ask the one question and you get a surface level answer, you’re not, your work’s not done yet.

Right. So that’s kind of the amateur sales approach. You know, you have a little bit of training. You’re a little bit better than the guy off the street. Sure. But you haven’t got down far enough. You have to approach it more like a therapist almost.

Matt Kafora: It’s a process, right? We start with our open ended questions.

These are my detective questions. Who, what, when, where, why, how. It, it opens that individual up. It forces them to talk and to share. And that’s fantastic. Then we get more and more narrow. And to be honest, this is kind of the secret sauce. Whether you are an independent studio, a franchise doesn’t matter.

The secret sauce here is, is we systemize this. And, you know, again, I know I sound counterintuitive things. Cause you’re like, Matt, this is relational. We want to make it individualized to who we’re sitting in front. Yes, but there’s also a process in, in how we ask our questions. 99 percent of the time for the last 20 years.

I have asked the same series of questions knowing Josh that you’re going to give me either this answer or this answer. So my next question is either go here or here and I kind of walked down this path, if you will, and I guide this conversation with questions getting to the outcome that I know I need to get to a, I need to overcome your objections prior to them actually servicing as objections during the price presentation.

And beat it, dig deep on that. Why? So one question should lead to two to three follow ups as well.

Josh: Yes, absolutely. Never stop at the first one. Always dig deeper, get to the real reason, get to the, the catalyst, whatever caused the movement. Yes, awesome. Okay, so you own quite a few gyms and they’re, they’re, they’re franchise gyms.

So what is the difference between opening a franchise gym versus a concept that you sort of just dreamt up yourself? That maybe people wouldn’t even expect.

Matt Kafora: I’ll share with you my experience and I’ll give you my, my high level answer here. The answer is nothing. And then I’ll kind of explain why I say that I started with the orange theory about 11 years ago.

I was brand new to market. I owned the third location in the entire network out of 1300. So when I opened. You know, one of my locations there, it was, again, there was no other orange series around orange. There was relatively new to Arizona. People had not really heard of. It was not a billion dollar brand as it is today.

Instead, people would approach my presale tent outside. Say what? What’s orange therapy? Do you guys sell smoothies here? And I’m thinking like, man, this is going to be a, this is going to be a rough go. So I’ve experienced, you know, no brand recognition, no brand awareness, you know, the, the unknown, right.

That a, that an independent would experience. So I can fully understand and appreciate that. What wins is getting into the community. Getting into the community, infusing yourself into the community, being a little bit disruptive to get in there. And this is where I really leverage that, that business to business marketing piece.

But at the end of the day, we just have to let people know that we’re there. We’ve got to create that brand awareness. Again, this is why I like the direct mail. This is why I like the business to business. People need to understand. That I’m here and I need to get out to my community. So whether you are franchise right, location number one due to market or independent, it’s, it’s very much the same and, and the same rules are going to apply and the same things are going to yield that positive outcome.

Now I’ll tell you on location number seven, I. Was a little bit better off. There was some brand recognition. There was some brand awareness. I was able to feed off other studios. I had another studio a couple of miles away. So when people said, you know, I want to try it out first, you know, in a, in a pre sale capacity, I’m like, great, go down there and talk to Josh.

He’ll take care. In fact, let me give him a buzz right now and let him know that you’re on your way. He’ll get you set up for your first class. By the way, who did you want to bring with you? Great. They would sign up their transfer, the membership over. So there’s some economies to scale when, when Dylan’s franchise especially if it’s, it’s, if your portfolio there if not, again, obviously there, there’s some differences, right?

We have some brand recognition. People know who 45 is. People know who orange theory is. You, you have some heavy hitters in space and that’s all fine. At the end of the day, it’s, it’s not the brand that sells people by people, people by community. People want to be a part of the community. This is why cheers, and I’m sure I’m dating myself.

This is why cheers was so popular, right? Everyone knew your name at the local bar. You know, and that’s it. So as long as we can establish that relationship. You know, I’ll say tongue in cheek. There’s not major difference between an independent studio and a franchise differences. The independent has no rules.

There’s no rules. Yes. No regulations. Gloves can come off. You can get as wild and crazy as you want with your marketing stuff. Sometimes franchises are a little bit more handcuffed. But again, that’s the systemization. That’s the process. That’s understanding that a Big Mac is a Big Mac is a Big Mac, regardless of where you’re at in the nation.

Josh: Absolutely. So within the confines of a franchise, do you have any tips for how to be successful as a franchisee?

Matt Kafora: I Would lean into the systemization and the process. You know, I, I love our, our franchise network for sure. Sometimes there’s framework provided by the franchise or sometimes it’s a little more loose.

I would Truly lean into that if there’s framework lean into it Customize it make it yours still abiding by brand guidelines, of course, but really lean into that Really understand what it is you’re looking to accomplish and then drill that like crazy role play with your team, build it out. So it’s so, so simple, so easy to follow.

And more importantly, the why is understood by you and your team. And then it makes it really easy to just kind of rinse and repeat that process. And that’s what allows us. So that’s, that’s a big difference. I think that. The franchisees of a network will experience versus like an independent operator is, you know, there’s, there’s not quite that framework, right?

It’s a shoot from the hip as an independent and you’re kind of like, okay, I get to, you know shake and jive and kind of go as I go. And I’m going to write the script and I’m going to write the rules and I’m going to build the framework and the template. On an independent side, oftentimes we find that there’s no framework, right?

And, and typically there’s a pretty low barrier to entry to get into the fitness space, right? Couple hundred thousand dollars, which I mean is. Is a large chunk of change, but accessible to many, whether it be SBA or what have you, IRA, 401k, what have you accessible to many and, and a love and a passion for fitness, right?

And we’re like, I love fitness. So I’m going to get into fitness. And sometimes we have this field of dreams mentality where we’re just going to build this beautiful studio and we’re just going to build it or doors are going to open and people are going to show up left, right to it for us. And unfortunately, that’s not how it works.

So this is what we’ve done at loud rumors really built out. A framework really built out a template and it’s a template that is applicable across every modality, every brand, every business, because it’s based on principles and it’s based on system and process. And again, it’s that framework that that allows you to really morph and mold to see what’s going to stay true to you, to your brand, to your client avatar, and ensure that.

Now you actually have something to work with versus this giant question mark, because we’ve seen too many gyms fail because of that lack of system and lack of process and having this giant question mark, despite their love and passion for fitness and desire to help people and change lives. If we don’t know how to do that, it becomes a little more difficult for us.

Josh: Absolutely. So I want to talk a little bit about your work with.

When you initially start working with a gym, they come to you, they’re like, Hey, we’ve got these pain points. We’re really trying to grow. What are the first things that you want to know about their business?

Matt Kafora: Yeah, really good question. It’s, it’s kind of a lay of the land. Right. And I liken this to exactly our client intake that we sat down with our prospective members.

I want to find out where you’re at. Okay. Just like we do with our members. I want to find out where you want to go to, just like we do with our members. And then I want to dig into the why. So I want to know why we need to get there. Are we losing money currently? Are we just breaking even and you’re not able to pay yourself?

Are we looking to grow and scale into a second location? Are you looking to remove yourself from the owner operator role? And turn this into a passive income stream. Are you looking to potentially sell off your business and exit it entirely? Was this a, a passive investment stream for you? So we really want to dig in and find out because at that point, then I can start to direct and start to determine, okay, here’s best course of action for you.

Here’s the best training for you to go through. Here’s the best for your team to go through. And then we can start to establish bottlenecks in the business and ensure that we’re, we’re working to. Open up those bottlenecks and, and allow the business to flow. Understanding that there is a triage process, right?

I don’t care what business it is, whether it’s, you know, Apple or Tesla or Microsoft or Intel, any of these heavy hitters, or it’s, you know, Susie’s candy store with one employee, it doesn’t matter the size and scale of the business. There’s problems, opportunities in every business. Right. And it’s a matter of, and they’re going to forever be there forever, right?

Whether it’s labor, whether it’s, you know, resource, there’s always issues and they’re, they’re forever going to be there. What we need to do is triage, right? So knock on wood, I like to speak in analogies, but say someone gets in a car accident, right? And they have a piece of glass in their neck. And they have a broken arm and some scratched up stuff on their knee.

And, you know, their, you know, shoe is torn off, right. And toes are bloodied. All of that’s a problem. Right? That’s not normal. We have eight things now that are broken, and I’m in pain, and it’s not good. But what’s going to kill you first? Great. We’re going to work on that piece first. We’re going to address the neck, and then we’re going to move to what’s next.

In the meantime, we might be able to You know, clean up some of the abrasions, slap a bandaid on it, call it a day. But I’m, my primary focus are those things that are going to kill me first. And that’s really how we approach business, right? There’s going to be 12, 000 things to fix all day, every day, no matter what, no matter what stage of your business you’re in, no matter how successful, or, you know, if you’re just starting your journey.

It doesn’t matter. There’s always things to fix. What’s going to kill you first. What can we do? That’s going to have the greatest impact in the shortest amount of time. And then we’re going to move on to the subsequent processes in there. And that’s really what we do is that initial analysis to see where you’re at, where you want to go, what the bottlenecks are, and then how we can start you on that path.

And then hold you accountable along the way. And when I say you, I’m not specifically speaking to the business owner. It’s how do we leverage the team as well? How do we get them rowing in the same direction? How do we get them singing the same song, sharing the same vision and delivering the same service to your members?

Because the members will feel that. Excellent.

Josh: In that vein where can listeners find you if they want to reach out to you and learn more about what you have to

Matt Kafora: offer? Yeah, go to loudrumor. com. So www. loudrumor. com. We will set up any sort of consultation. A quick 15 minute just kind of discovery.

Find out where you’re at, where you want to go. And if we can, you know, help you out there the good news is we can help out 99. 9 percent of all fitness studios because it is business principles that we teach.

Josh: Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on. This has been extremely helpful. I know this is going to be very, very useful information for my listeners.

Matt Kafora: Great. Awesome. Well, thanks for having me, Josh. I appreciate it. Yeah.

Josh: Thanks for coming on. I hope we can do this again sometime.

Matt Kafora: Yes, sir. You bet.


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