Josh Peacock: Our hero today is Aaron Moore, director of operations at Urban Adventure Companies and an entrepreneur in the fitness industry. In this episode, dispels myths about hiring in a post-covid world and tells us where we can find quality fitness professionals to hire. Since the fitness industry has such poor turnover, he also reveals to us how he manages to keep those professionals working in his business. Without further ado, Aaron Moore.

Alright. Welcome to the Gym Heroes Podcast, Aaron. If you could go ahead and introduce yourself and give your background in business in the fitness industry.

Aaron Moore: Thanks Josh, appreciate you having me today. So, Aaron Moore, director of operations at Vita Fitness and Urban Adventures Companies. My background in the fitness industry is exactly what I’m doing right now. Before this, I was in college athletics coaching football and then I had an opportunity to get in with Vita just when it was starting out on the ground floor. So, we’ve grown the concept from pretty traditional gym as Vita Fitness with Strength Cardio and classes to 7 brands today. So, in addition to Vita, we have bank, salon or hair salon or a spa or spa concept, a boutique fitness studio called Sweatbox. A rooftop pool and restaurant concept called The Penthouse. A local brew hub called Capital City Brewing Company and we’ve just recently branded our Pilates program into a separate studio called Vita Pilates.

So, we’ve been at it here in the DC area for about 16 years now. 5 locations in DC. One in Arlington, Virginia and a couple locations coming down the pike in Virginia in the years ahead. So, about a 50,000 square foot model. We’d like to try to accomplish as much as humanly possible within one building.

Josh Peacock: Excellent. So, one of the topics that is really pain point for gym owners right now and fitness businesses that you’ve talked on before on some other podcasts is actually finding and keeping employees, both finding and keeping employees. So, is it actually harder to find employees now because it does it seems like that to a lot of people?

Aaron Moore: So, I don’t think it’s harder. I think it’s different. So, let’s define harder. So, if your definition of harder is it’s more time consuming than it used to be. I would agree with you. It’s harder. But I find a lot of folks in the industry in many industries are defining harder as it’s just not working. They don’t know what to do. They’re spinning their wheels and it’s not working. So, I don’t believe and I haven’t experienced it being harder in that way. It’s just very different. So, before the pandemic we used to get everything we needed organically through our website and whatever we didn’t get through the website. We’d do a job posting on Indeed. Couple hundred resumes in an hour and we’re fat dumb and happy with that approach.

That’s very friend and every time I talk to an operator in the industry, they’re like, yeah, I can’t get talent. I’m having the hardest time. It’s like, okay, what are you doing? And it’s some version of what they’ve always done. Like I’ve sent out an email about employee referrals. I’ve done job postings on every job board. I can’t find. I’ve done a bunch of social media postings. I’ve put flyers around the club so on and so forth. That’s a very reactive way of thinking and it just doesn’t work anymore. So, we have to be proact more so than we ever have before and it’s such a cool opportunity right now because nobody else is doing it. Everybody’s just being reactive in inventing. So let me dive into that a little bit.

So, it’s reactive is job postings and social media. What’s a proactive way of doing it? So, number one you have to understand what are your needs and where can you find them? So, and it’s recruiting. At the end of the day, recruiters have been around for hundreds of years probably and when we don’t know what to do, we find a recruiter. So, we can be our own recruiters because most of us don’t have the budgets. For recruiters and most recruiters don’t want to touch anything under a C suite executive. So, go to where the people are.

The main sources of talent that we’re finding are 3-fold. Number one, LinkedIn. So, LinkedIn, very good for traditional management and sales positions, marketing positions, HR, IT, very traditional job roles. To an extent, personal trainers to an extent, massage therapists and things like that. But once we get into more of the service provider lane, we’re off LinkedIn and we’re on the Instagram. So, massage therapists, estheticians, personal trainers, hairstylists, group fitness instructors. Instagram is an awesome source of information. Does require you to be active on Instagram, posting regularly, promoting your brand and having the knowledge base of where to find other individuals well. And number three is competitors.

So, everybody feels slightly different about coaching or recruiting from local competitors, but I promise you that people are doing it to you and that’s the way the game is played right now. I mean, we can even track on our website people looking at every single personal trainer. We have featured every single massage therapist we have featured and they’re obviously trying to look at our talent and recruit from them. So, it’s on us to provide a higher quality, more competitive working environment. So, you have to be aware of your competitors and my favorite approach is not to say something to the effect of like, hey, Josh you should quit your current job and come work for me. Like come train at my gym. It’s better. I’ll reach out and say like, hey, Josh looks like you have a nice following over there at ABC Gym. Like, hey, are you looking to pick up an extra shift or two? I know extra couple clients. Like we’ve got a pretty good demand over here and we could use you a little bit.

Sometimes they’ll be like yeah, I could pick up another shift or two or yeah, we could use a few extra clients. And then you get people in on a part-time basis and they start comparing their current environment versus the environment that you provide and slowly but surely, we get a lot of people that way coming over full time. I will add a little footnote on understandably it’s a little bit more challenging to find people that require licensure. Personal trainers, lifeguards, group fitness instructors to an extent. Massage therapist, hairstylist. The good side of that, personal training is not a good example but massage therapy and salons, they’re schools and they’re probably 4, 5, 6 schools in your market that would love to have you come on site, do a career affair, would love to have you come on site and do a training of sorts. And even with personal trainers and group fitness instructors, reach out to TRX.

Ask to host a local or regional certification program where you can get newly certified Is very familiar with your club right then and there. You can reach out to Zumba and Less Mills. Like, hey, what resources do you have to let people that are certified with your entity to let them know we have openings in our area. So, it’s one at a time team member or employee recruitment, this whole job posting. Like, yes, do job postings, anything that you get from that is gravy though. It’s so easy to do it, do it but you can’t have any expectations there.

Josh Peacock: Excellent. It’s a lot of really good information. So, you kind of covered this but I was wondering if you expected, if you have to practice like a hair salon or something, you have to be licensed. But with gray areas like personal training where there’s kind of an industry expectation but you don’t necessarily have to be certified. Do you expect Industry certifications from those types of employees before you hire them?

Aaron Moore: We do, and that’s just our approach. I don’t think there’s a right way or necessarily a way that I would recommend. But I’ll tell you what works for us. We have a very strong relationship with NASM. I think NASM is generally accepted as one of the best if not the best certification in the industry. So, people just organically find us because they’re NASM certified and they know that we’re a NASM facility. We promote it on our website. We promote it on social media and we do have a scholarship program where we purchase 20 NASM certifications per year and give them away to qualified individuals under a scholarship program.

So, in that regard, yes, we’re taking somebody who’s not certified getting them certified removing the financial barrier for the expense of a certification. Then mentoring them and coaching them to be a really good personal trainer through our top personal trainers along the way. We’re converting these people in 3 to 6 months from somebody who’s never done a PT session to a fully licensed NASM certified personal trainer that’s ready to take on immediate client’s people, members, clients have seen them around the club they have the endorsement of the top personal trainers in our club who have full books. So, they can say, hey Josh, I’m full I don’t have the time to train you three times a week but I’ve been training Aaron and he’s awesome. He’s one of our new trainers and he’s going to take good care of you in that regard. So, it doesn’t have to be NASM. There’s lots of good partners out there, but we take a very active approach in making sure that everybody knows we’re a NASM facility.

Josh Peacock: Awesome. So, you talked about having NASM partnership, talked about having a partnership or reaching out to people like Les Mills and these other types of established places that are producing trainers. What else can you do to maintain a consistent pipeline of employee leads?

Aaron Moore: So, I mean, you answered your own question. It’s to have a pipeline. So, we quite literally have a resume pipeline. So, every time, let me back up a little bit. So, it’s very important that you recruit 24/7, 365 regardless of need. So, and that, I think the most efficient way to do that is to design a careers page on your website. So, if you go to careers page at “”, it’ll list every position that we have in the company a few very simple questions that are really about our company culture that we ask you to answer and then an opportunity to upload your resume. So, we’ll get anywhere from 5 to 10 organic resume submissions every day and we put every single one of those resumes into an internal pipeline.

So, like today, I got seven resumes alone for front desk team members. I don’t have any front desk openings today but, in a week, I probably will have some. So, we have 6 locations. Any hiring manager anytime can go into our various pipeline folders, search the position that they need and be able to reach out to individuals as well. So, whether you’re getting these folks from a job posting, whether you’re reaching out to your local community to see who might be interested in the future, a lot of times, if we go to a career fair either at a local college or university or at a technical school. We’ll have everybody fill out our iPad with their information and their resume, so we can populate the pipeline there. So again, recruiting based on need and current openings is a very reactive pre-pandemic practice. You have to dedicate time to recruiting talent every single day. It’s just like membership.

So, every day, you’re trying to generate new membership leads and convert those membership leads to new membership sales. If you’re a people-facing business which all of us are, why would you treat hiring any different? You need leads every day coming in for hiring and you can do that by creating expectations with your hiring managers and making sure that their job descriptions outline the how and the why of recruiting or if you have the resources, you can do it through a recruiting department as a department of your HR wing, for example.

Josh Peacock: Awesome. So, let’s switch gears here to let’s say that we’ve got our pipelines full. We found some people that we want to bring in and for an interview. What sort of questions would should somebody be asking in an interview? What should you be looking for in a good employee?

Aaron Moore: As much transparency as possible. So, we can prequalify based on paper and the resume we can ask a few questions to make sure that the resume is as accurate. After the first couple minutes we get on to what we call behavioral interview questions. So, we pay the picture of what the environment is going to look like. So, let’s use personal training as an example because we’ve talked about that a little bit. Not just assessing their knowledge base and what they know. If they’re NASM certified, we already know the answers to that question. But, is your expectation that personal trainers are only going to heat what they kill and they’re going to have to work the floor and work leads and get their own clients? If so, set that expectation at the outset of the interview eyes wide open and try to assess, how you’re going to do that.

It’s like, hey, Josh, as you can see, we got lots of great equipment here. We have a need for personal trainers. Every member gets a new session. But at the end of the day, you’re going to get a list of people with personal training sessions on their account and the membership team is going to introduce you to new memberships and then, it’s on you to convert it. So, what’s your approach? That would be an interview question in that setting. You may do it a little bit differently. You may take the sales process completely off of your personal trainer and just ask them to focus on giving great sessions.

So, one of the things that we have here is an onboarding program for personal training where every new member is going to get four 1-hour personal training sessions. So, if I’m talking to a personal training candidate, I’m going to say something like, hey, Josh, my primary focus is you being a master of your craft as a personal trainer. I’m going to give you every new client that you’re going to get, they’re going to have four hours with you. So, the first couple of sessions just build give them a great session. And if you deliver four quality 1-hour personal training sessions with these new members they’re going to want to keep training with you. Like there’s no gimmicks, like there’s no promos. You don’t have to do a hard pose after a 30-minute complimentary session. And then we give them the coaching and the training to be able to perform that. But I think the biggest thing people miss in interview questions is really giving the candidate a true understanding of what you expect them to do immediately first thirty, 60, 90 days in the role. And so, there’s this tool called a Job Scorecard. So, a Job Scorecard is simply that, how are you going to be evaluating the candidate early on when they start the position.

So, there’s a great book. It’s called Scaling Up by an author named Vern Harnish and in this book it’s probably 20 bucks on Amazon or anywhere else. These templates of these Job Scorecards and you simply fill it out. It’s like day one. What do you want the employee to do? If it’s a personal trainer, how many sessions do you expect them to sell? Say like, hey Josh, within 30 days, I’m going to expect you to have a book of 20 clients. So, you’re going to have to help feed yourself. What’s going to be your approach and how are you going to work the floor to get new clients. So really trying to create that hypothetical situation and see how they might navigate it.

Josh Peacock: Excellent. So, an employee wants to sell himself or herself to be hired but there’s also a sense in which you want to sell yourself as a company, right. Because they could choose to go somewhere else especially if they have good credentials. So, how do you go about making an attractive front-end presentation of the company itself and building out like benefits packages that are going to be attractive to qualify workers?

Aaron Moore: Yeah. So, it’s just like buying a house. You have to understand the market that you’re in. Is it a buyer’s market right now or is it a seller’s market? Right now, we are in an employee’s market. We’re not interviewing employees especially personal trainers and massage therapists. They’re interviewing us. They’re going to have teen different opportunities to go work for. So, we are being interviewed not the other way around. And when we’re in an employer market, we can be a little bit more choosy and picky, because we have more to choose from. So, in this day and age I think we’d all agree it’s an employee’s market.

So, the two things that we find consistently are really important. One is obvious financial. If you’re paying under market an employee’s market, you’re not going to get very far with that. So, not everybody is money motivated and not everybody has that as their sole motivation, but it’s a pre qualifier. If you’re under market or not at a certain level, you can have the most amazing company culture in the world. It’s not going to matter, if people can’t pay their bills or don’t feel like they’re compensated fairly. So, you really have to evaluate the industry and other industries. Because the fitness industry is historically a lower paying industry. And if you live in a fluent pricey urban area like we do in Washington DC, you make yourself right for other industries to come in and take your talent especially with traditional management sales, HRIT type positions.

So, you have to understand the market rate and it’s something that we look at every month. Like how is the average in the median salaries and rate of pay changing? And we know we have to stay on top of that not only with our new hires but with our existing hires as well. I can’t tell you the cultural value of going to an employee and be like, hey, you know what? We benchmark your position and the rates gone up. There’s more demand for your services. So, we’re going to increase your salary by X and there’s like, what? Like, it’s not even my annual salary review like, what do you mean, how does this work? What’s the catch? We’re like, the catch is we want you to stay here, type thing. So, it’s important to do that to the extent that you can. So, there’s the financial component.

The second biggest factor is the company culture. People in this day and age typically want to work with a sense of purpose where they feel highly where they have autonomy and empowerment. And like let’s be honest none of us really want to be told what to do all the time. Cast me with the job, pay me for it fairly and let me knock it out of the park for you. Like let me do a good job for you. Be there for me when I need help. Like anticipate my needs, like offer, support, practice servant-based leadership. But most people don’t want to work in this top down tell me what to do environment. And then of course, the whole culture of remote work hybrid work, each and every operator out there is going to have to make their own decisions on what they’re comfortable with in that regard.

Then from there, it kind of trickles down. So, what’s the rest of the package? So, health insurance, dental insurance, rising cost, those things are very important. Sometimes, it doesn’t matter. If you’re dealing with a candidate that has a spouse that works for the government and they’re covered at a 100%. They’re like, hey, you can have a crappy health insurance program. I don’t have a need so it doesn’t matter to me. For the most part, it is important though. Then one of the final things I’ll mention is 401K with a match has been interesting. Like we believe in it, we view it as a must have, but when we survey our employees about the importance of it always ranks very low. I’m not sure why that is. Maybe we haven’t aged up enough close enough to age 65 to really start to understand the importance of a good 401K program.

So, that’s an example of we don’t get feedback directly from employees that that’s of a high degree of importance. But we believe it’s a function of kind of protecting people from themselves. So, like okay you’re not going to care about it for the next 15 years because you’re in your mid 20s. But I tell you what we sit down and talk and you’re 45 you’re going to be like whoo, man glad to have something in this account.

Josh Peacock: Absolutely. So, let’s say you hire somebody. You touched on this before but I want to see if maybe there’s some more, you could expand on some more. How do you approach onboarding new members once you’ve hired them?

Aaron Moore: So, new employees?

Josh Peacock: Yeah.

Aaron Moore: Okay. So, it sounds simple but we believe in checklists. We are constantly evolving and collaborating on everything that we need to do. We get pretty granular with our training manuals and our SOP documents, every business unit, every department has a pretty in-depth standard operating procedure. The problem with those is that they’re living documents and within a couple weeks, there’s like, oh, we forgot this or this has changed and been revised and things like that. So, we provide training and onboarding checklist to make sure that we also provide that narrative behind what’s in the SOP and we believe in doing as much role playing and live training as possible. Because nobody present company included is going to take a 55-page department manual and really know it and memorize it.

So, we position it simply as a reference guide. It’s like, hey, here’s all the standard operating procedures. Something’s going to come up and you’re not going to know Answer but it’s contained right here. It’s digital, you can search by it like this is your reference guide to refer back to, type thing. Other than that, it’s a pretty immersive experience like take managers for example. We have managers drive the front desk for typically the first one to two weeks of their role. That’s the best way to get live reps on our various softwares to get to meet as many members as possible to interact with various team members and other employees and things like that.

So, we call that part of the process the initial training or the onboarding. So, it’s the fundamental aspects of sort of the science of what you have to do. And then once they have a really good understanding of systems and softwares and things like that. We get into more the progressive or strategic training where there’s no right or wrong answer. So, member walks up to you and they’re frustrated about something. So, how are you empathetic and how do you resolve a situation type thing? So, all of our employees are empowered to do whatever it takes to resolve a member issue and you can’t possibly outline every given situation in a training manual for example. So, for that we do a lot of role play and then we share successes with the team. So, this member came up to me. He was upset about XYZ. Here’s what he did and then he posted a 5-star review on Yelp. Like here’s how we made that happen.

Josh Peacock: Awesome. Are there any pitfalls to avoid when you’re onboarding a new employee?

Aaron Moore: Yeah, I mean, too much too soon. I mean, a lot of times as training managers, we have to remind ourselves that we’ve been here X number of years. We’ve had so much experience in so many live repetitions that we can’t just talk at somebody and tell them how to do something and then walk away from it like they know as much as we know, so to speak. So, it’s really important to check in with individuals, how are you doing and the job scorecard for example that I mentioned earlier. It’s like constantly sitting down and be like, okay, we are progressing towards this performance goal, Josh, do you feel like, I’ve properly supported you to achieve this goal. Is there additional training or additional repetitions you’d like in any of these things?

That’s why we separate what we call our product knowledge training, which is really that fundamental foundational, scientific. You check in a member the same way every time and try to get that knocked out of the way first and then move on to what we call our professional development training. Which is more the art the strategy on how you demonstrate you know empathy with a member. And then through the use of checklist, it’s really easy to refer back and say like, hey, this manual is 55 pages long but this checklist is a one pager of 30 some items. So, what’s your comfort level in each of these things. And like with membership sales for example, we have diagnostic. It’s 93 things that you have to do week in and week out to be an expert in your role.

We just like to try to assess, where you at on each of these things and then, we build individual and team training agendas based on those areas of opportunity. So, training and onboarding it never ends so to speak. It’s a progressive evolution and we have a series of trainings. So, we have one-on-one trainings between hiring manager and employee. We have team trainings for departments and then once a month we have an all-hands company training that we provide. And it’s either sort of back-to-basics SOPs. We need to really focus in on these foundational items or it’s more evolutionary collab Like hey we have an opportunity to evolve and do something a little bit better.

Josh Peacock: Awesome. So, you have a very structured systematic way of bringing people on board and then you continue to have one-on-one feedback as well as regular trainings after that point to continue to I guess give repetitions to those most important things and review things that might be get a little bit eroded in the back of your mind about SOPs and things like that. Excellent So turnover is I mean it’s not a secret to is really bad in the fitness industry. How do you go about keeping your trainers? You mentioned benchmarking, but how else do you go about trying to keep them working for you?

Aaron Moore: Yeah, so trainers specifically they want to grow. They want to have financial growth. They want to grow from a 20 something that has an apartment that they like in an area that they like and enough money to go out to dinner with their friends and take a few vacations a year and things like that. And that involves into, they want to get a car that is more than a couple $1000. They can’t pay cash for it, so they’re going to have a car payment for the first time. They want to get out of the renter’s market and buy a house and things like that. Then they want to start a family and all those things. So, in order to achieve that you have to have a proper avenue for financial growth and then you have to provide an environment where somebody thinks they can do it in each new decade of their life.

So, can I do this job in my 20s? Like yeah, I have tons of time to dedicate to work. Okay, can I do this job in my 30s? Like, well, I’ve got some other interest in my life. It’s getting a little bit of a pinch. Can I do this job in my 40s? Oh, I’ve got two, three kids now, like, I can’t work evenings and weekends like every single time. So, you have to be self-aware of where are the breaking points when you have turnover. Is your turnover age based when people need more personal time and more flexibility in their schedules for their families? Is your turnover burnout based where you can only work so hard for so long? Is your turnover for lack of growth where somebody’s mastered the job and doesn’t have an opportunity for growth and now, they’re just bored, because it doesn’t challenge them anymore? And things like that.

So, getting back to personal trainers specifically, we have a growth model that has evolved as our trainers have evolved in tenures. So, we first started out, we had two levels of personal trainer with a little bit of a commission bump once you reach the second level. And that was it. You’re either personal trainer or a master trainer. Once you get enough sessions and enough clients, you can get promoted to a master trainer. Then we had everybody promoted a master trainer and they said, what’s next? And we’re like, okay. Now, we’re going to create a new class called an expert trainer and it gets another commission bump. And, oh by the way, if you reach these number of sessions, we’re going to provide you with a monthly bonus structure. So, you can get a little bonus on top of your commissions. They said, cool and then, everybody started leveling up to expert trainer and maxing out their bonuses. We said, okay, like we’re about our commission threshold, what’s important to you? And they said, education certifications. We said, cool. For every session that you do, you’re going to get essentially the equivalent of a CEC. It’s a dollar amount and you earn those in a Vita Bank of sorts and you can redeem those dollars for education.

So, you want to get TRX certified. You want to get a kettlebell cert. You want to get a strength and conditioning or a CrossFit, a certification. How much do you have in credit and you can go ahead and redeem that. then, the next time they came to us and they’re like, hey, we’re starting to have kids and families now. We need a better PTO structure even though we’re 100% commission based and we said, okay, cool. Like, let’s take a look at industry best practices. So, we evolved our PTO structure for personal trainers. So, it’s a combination of providing an opportunity for growth, understanding the needs of your team, what are your doing or what are the best practices in your industry and making it a career field where people can do it for their entire professional lives.

The top question that I get with personal trainers is like, yeah, personal trainers are not 9 to 5rs. It’s like early mornings and late evenings and sort of burning the candle at both ends. They got to come in for 5 AM, 6 AM clients bored throughout the day and then they come got to come back in at 5 PM. Like how does anyone accomplish that as they get older start a family. Said, will it’s simple. If you’re in that much of a demand people will accommodate their schedules to train with you. And this is before the pandemic. After the pandemic’s even easier because everybody’s got this hybrid work schedule.

And so, our best personal trainers, they’ll come in and they’ll work mornings and evenings. And they’ll start to get busy and then they’ll make a choice. And this is the choice every good personal trainer makes. Do you want to be a morning personal trainer? Or do you want to be an evening personal trainer. So, you keep your existing morning or evening clients. Let’s say you’re a morning personal trainer. So, keeping your morning clients is easy. Now, you got to go your evening clients and be like, hey, I’m going to be out of the club at 3 PM, every day. I would love to continue training with you, but because I get here at 5 AM, I can’t train you at 8 PM. I’d be happy to recommend a trainer or if you can rebook your schedule, I do have 2 PM open. And 9 times out of ten, the client is like, give me the 2 PM. Like I’ll figure out my work schedule. I’ll take and other times, they need to get reassigned.

So, we create that opportunity with the personal trainer to have a consistent 5 consecutive day work schedule where they’re training consistently throughout the day. They come in at a consistent time. They leave it a consistent time. They have their two days off in a row and now it’s something that they can do for a career.

Josh Peacock: Excellent. That’s awesome. You don’t hear that a lot. A lot of people go into the personal training and they’ll get some clients, they’ll do pretty well, and they’ll do, that’ll be while they’re young. Then as they get older, they realize, oh, there’s, I’m missing business fundamentals, or I’m not with the right place, or I can’t find the right place to work to, and things aren’t going to work out, so I’ve got to go do something else. And then they end up leaving personal training, and sometimes never returning. So, that’s really a great way to approach in a gym, how you can incentivize trainers to continue to, to think intelligent about how their instruction is and then give them incentives to stay there and stay in the industry and invest in what they’ve done, what they’ve been doing while they were younger.

Aaron Moore: Yeah, and all of them have a passion for it. I mean it’s the I guess you can look at too is like how’d you get your personal trainers in the first place? Like with our team the vast majority this is what they went to school for. They have master’s degrees in exercise science. Like this is what they want to do. And that’s their passion. Versus a personal trainer, it’s like, man, like, I’m having trouble deciding what I want to do with my life, like, I’m active, I played sports, like, I guess I’ll be a personal trainer for a while, type thing. There’s nothing wrong with hiring those individuals, but just know that the passion is lacking, and so you have to create that passion.

So, if it’s not a, a student of exercise science, so to speak, you can say like, hey Josh, like I know you’re in real estate for a while. I know you did the, the server gig at some restaurants, you were an accountant for a few years. And like, all those jobs suck, right. And you hate, bouncing around, like, this can be the destination for you and this could be a really fun, rewarding career where you can earn a good living and also have a sense of purpose. Having said that, like any profession, continuing education is really important and we want to create that opportunity for you. So, you’re sort of creating that academic passion on the back end. But it’s really critical that you don’t just let people go that are sort of between jobs or trying to figure out the next step and they sell a little bit and they connect with people and they’re making decent money and you never take the initiative to create that passion. So, they’re just right for the next thing that comes along in a couple years.

Josh Peacock: Yeah. Awesome. Well, this has been really good. Where can people find you if they want to reach out to you or see more of what you’re doing?

Aaron Moore: So, there’s two ways to reach out to me. You can email me at, and that’s like screaming into the void. I’ll have trouble getting back to you. Like most of us to emails. We’re actually trying to figure out a way internally to get rid of email. It’s not going very well. The second way and the best way is just to shoot me a message on LinkedIn. That’s where I talk to most folks in the industry and be happy to have a conversation with anybody that wants to dive into any of these topics a little further.

Josh Peacock: Awesome. Thank you again for coming on the show and I hope we can do this again sometime.

Aaron Moore: Alright, Josh. I appreciate you and hopefully this was helpful.

Josh Peacock: It was!

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